Online Marketing: Branding the Dot-Com

KAREN LAKE: Could you start by giving our radio audience a brief overview of what your company offers the online business community?

HOLLIS THOMASES: We take a look at online businesses from a sales and marketing perspective. We think about who the target audience is, what the website is trying to communicate to the target audience and how best to do that. We develop a picture and a plan of how to market to the target audience. We also take into account the client's goals, their budget and the amount of time they're planning on to roll this strategy out.

KAREN LAKE: I've never heard the word "picture" used this way. What do you mean?

HOLLIS THOMASES: We consider the Internet to be the ultimate communications vehicle. Right now most of the work on the Internet is done in relation to what you see and read. If you're reading a book, a picture develops in your mind's eye. As a user comes to a website and the business of that website starts communicating, the user is picturing something. It can be communicated with words, pictures or a combination of both. We want to help develop the appropriate picture in the user's mind for the client we're working with.

KAREN LAKE: So branding might be a close association to that word.

HOLLIS THOMASES: Certainly.

KAREN LAKE: Can you take us back to the beginnings of Web Ad.vantage? Why was it started and what's changed since then?

HOLLIS THOMASES: Web Ad.vantage was founded in May 1998 as a brainchild of mine. I was a casual Internet user with a sales and marketing background. I was getting frustrated trying to find things that I knew were on the Internet but that search engines weren't helping me pinpoint. I knew there were other things out there, but I was just not coming across them. I realized that websites themselves were like businesses. They would need to promote themselves if they wanted to be found. So the basis for the business was to produce cooperative print ads as cost-shared ways to promote the website URL to a target audience in a print publication.

After creating the collateral material and going out and doing sales for the business, queries related to online work began to come through: "Do you do online marketing? Do you do banner placements? Do you do this? Do you do that?" At first we were turning work down, but after a while I realized there was a lot of opportunity here. We took a hiatus from doing direct sales for the co-op ads and repositioned ourselves as online marketers. When we felt confident enough to go back out and perform, we relaunched Web Ad.vantage.

Marketing Mistakes

KAREN LAKE: What are some of the biggest mistakes people make in marketing their sites?

HOLLIS THOMASES People are in such a hurry to go online, to get a web presence, that they don't think things through. I would say the first mistake is made in developing the site. The user experience is not as facilitated as it could be, so the user has difficulty navigating the site. Or the site doesn't communicate what it is from the get-go. After spending ten or twelve hours online five or six days a week, I can't stand it when I get to a website and don't understand what it's about. I want to know in fifteen to thirty seconds.

KAREN LAKE: So one of the mistakes you see is in development at the very beginning. People should come up with a thorough plan of how they're going to get online, who they're targeting and what they're going to do.

HOLLIS THOMASES: Yes.

KAREN LAKE: And that needs to be somewhere on the front page, saying this is what we do and this is who we are.

HOLLIS THOMASES: Yes, exactly.

KAREN LAKE: What other marketing mistakes do you see after somebody has created their site? Let's say they've done a good job of thinking things through and saying this is who we are and these are the products and services we offer. What are the next stumbling blocks people might come up against?

HOLLIS THOMASES: First of all, customer service and having contact information on the site. If you're a legitimate business, why aren't you listing a telephone number? If you have a contact form with fields to collect names and e-mail addresses, then you should get back to people. Our general rule is a 24-hour response, and we stick to that pretty stringently.

The other obstacle can be the tools they rely on to communicate their message to the masses. As ecommerce businesses grow, they need to address customer relations issues. That might mean outsourcing or using intermediary tools. Nothing impresses me more than when I send an e-mail request to a company I know is very large and very busy, and I hear back from them promptly. It's more of what you can do to encourage someone rather than discourage them or turn them off. I don't think people talk about you so much when you do something well, but they talk about you a lot when you do something poorly.

The Communication Value of Content

KAREN LAKE: What do you see as the biggest misconceptions about marketing on the Internet?

HOLLIS THOMASES: In general, folks see the Internet like, "This is going to cure our problems with business growth. We're going to get all sorts of new business by going online and getting a website." That just doesn't happen.

KAREN LAKE: It creates new problems.

HOLLIS THOMASES: That's right, it really does. The web is not a solution for every business all the time. The other thing occurs at the most basic level: we hear a lot of frustration about finding a website through search engines. People are saying, "We've had our website online for a year, and we type our name into Yahoo! and we're still not found." We try to keep everything focused on the everyman here.

KAREN LAKE: What do you mean by "the everyman"?

HOLLIS THOMASES: We want to communicate with all of our clients, our audience, our readership the same way. Whether I'm talking to a technically savvy person or somebody who's just getting online and doesn't know how to work e-mail, I want everybody to understand us. Because they're all different people, we go to great lengths to communicate on a common level. I think that's necessary now because, even though it's such a new medium, you can take things for granted. If you start talking in cyberspeak, you lose half your audience. Or they get to a place on your website and have to download something like a plug-in for it to function. That intimidates a lot of people and you lose them. How technically savvy you should make a website depends on your target audience. If you're dealing with a young audience, they're likely to be much more comfortable than an older audience.

KAREN LAKE: How do you test whether or not a website is intuitive? I think we make assumptions because we're inundated with this information all the time. So we think everybody knows those words, and then somebody comes on and says, "I don't know what that means." How do you make sure you can see past your own cyberspeak?

HOLLIS THOMASES: One measurement is the length of time spent on your site and the number of pages folks drill down into the site. If they get there and stay awhile, either you've matched up your marketing efforts with the right target audience and got the right person to your site, or they find the information understandable, intriguing, worthy of going deeper. The more pages they've visited, the more you've targeted the right audience and retained them--at least for a single visit--by sending out the right message. You're conveying the information in a way they can understand. If you're losing a lot of folks right off the bat, you're doing something wrong.

Lower Cost Marketing

KAREN LAKE: For those of you who are looking for Web Ad.vantage, it's Web Ad.vantage.net, not .com. There's a big difference. When we were looking for your site, we first went to the dot-com and said, "These are not the guys."

So let's go through some different dollar amounts and how you would spend them for a client. If I were a client with $10,000 per month to spend, what activities would you suggest I spend my money on?

HOLLIS THOMASES: I like to know the budget and a bit more about the target audience. With $10,000 a month we can at least do some media placement if that's appropriate. We like to look at the big picture. There's a lot of money to be spent in buying media online or anywhere, but that's not the only thing we want to dedicate our time to because it's not how we position ourselves.

We take a look at the client's target audience. In developing the marketing plan, we find the different kinds of vehicles appropriate for that target audience and the client's website. We might discover opportunities to place content on various ezines--the online version of magazines--or on related websites. If somebody in the target audience wants general information and they read content, there's a hyperlink back to our client's website. They're more likely to click on that than on a banner ad because content has more credibility than advertisement.

We might also pursue site-linking options for our client if there are appropriate websites that match the target audience and have linking arrangements--whether these are reciprocal or they just accept links.

We can also look to direct e-mail marketing through either brokered, opt-in lists or--if the client happens to have their own e-mail database--through direct marketing to their prospective audience.

We might look at e-mail newsletters as a form of delivery. Because the newsletter is coming directly to the recipients' mailboxes and they've already opted to receive it, they're more likely to read it and click on the link to the client's website than they are with a generic banner on the site.

Media placement also has bearing on a marketing campaign. So we look at how to place media ads prudently. We're not big on general run of site, run of channel kinds of things. We'd rather do targeted buys, guaranteed placements in the form of an anchor sponsorship, perhaps, rather than just a rotated banner.

KAREN LAKE: If I cut the budget down to $5,000, what would I delete and what would I place more focus on?

HOLLIS THOMASES: You'd probably end up deleting the media buy because there's not much you can do at that level, especially with targeted placements. We like to temper our client's expectations when we start. Based on their budget and goals, we take a look at what we can do for them. Then we'll say, "If you have a smaller budget, we can still do a lot for you, but you're going to have to realize that traffic might build slowly and steadily over time, as opposed to a spike." Or they may choose to filter their money to one vehicle only. If they just want to do an opt-in, direct e-mail campaign, then we'll do that. Or if they want to negotiate a placement or a sponsorship on one key site, we can do that.

KAREN LAKE: If I have $1,000 per month, should I just throw up my hands and walk away?

HOLLIS THOMASES: I usually send clients like that to a Microsoft bCentral or SmartAge--someplace with canned services. They can spend a little bit of money, get a little bit of attention and feel like they're getting something, but it's not hands-on, personalized assistance.

Site Linking or Partnerships

KAREN LAKE: When you mention "site linking" I think of small business. The big boys don't do that. Do you find that's true?

HOLLIS THOMASES: It depends. It's a small business strategy because it's a low cost, relatively simple thing to do, and it doesn't require a lot of technical skill or overhead. It's very grassroots and it's also time intensive. The big guys don't always have the time or want to waste the time to do it. But there are companies that see value in it. Let me also emphasize that there's a lot of value in developing strategic partnerships online. The bigger boys are better at doing that, but a lot of strategic relationships boil down to reciprocal linking.

KAREN LAKE: So the big businesses call it "partnership" and the small businesses call it "site linking"?

HOLLIS THOMASES: There's more that goes into partnership than simple site linking. But a lot of it is, "Let's either create a co-page together or have a portion of our site dedicated to you and vice-versa. Let's do ad swapping in each other's e-mails and newsletters and things like that." Basically, a lot of the same thing goes on when you talk about site linking. It's just called something different.

KAREN LAKE: Are there rules for site linking when you approach another site and ask for that type of arrangement? I've seen that done well and done poorly.

HOLLIS THOMASES: There's definitely an etiquette involved. The first thing is to have an appropriate sense of the other site. Don't just spam it and say, "Hey, we want a link." There's got to be a sense of what's in it for them. Does the site I have match the site they have? Is there a fit or appropriateness to it?

Take five minutes to peruse the site you're requesting a link on to find a tidbit that you can use to personalize the e-mail request to the site owner or webmaster. "I saw the page about blah, blah, blah. I thought that was really cool and appropriate for our target audience. Would you mind putting a link on your website back to mine, and I can do the same for you?" Something that tells the site owner you've spent a little time on their site.

Cost-Saving Marketing Ideas

KAREN LAKE: In your literature you talk about the importance of contests or giveaways. In some places that's considered cheesy, but we hear about it all the time. How do you have contests or giveaways without offending your audience?

HOLLIS THOMASES: It depends on the audience. One of my clients from Scotland says, "You Americans always want something for free." These days, more so than in traditional marketing, it's always about the offer. If you have only thirty seconds to communicate your message when somebody opens an e-mail, you've got to give them a good reason to come to the site. Just because you've got a great site and offer great products, that's not enough of an incentive, apparently. It can be something simple like "Buy one, get one free," or "Buy today, get free shipping." When you're talking about attracting your target audience, there's always something that would appeal to them. It doesn't have to be cheesy.

One of the strategies we're working on now is targeting high-level executives. They're all pressed for time today. Technology was supposed to make our lives easier and open up more free time, but instead we have less. So what kinds of giveaways could we offer to make executives feel like they have more time--that would actually be helpful instead of cheesy?

KAREN LAKE: You need to have an appropriate incentive that appeals to your audience, along with a deadline.

HOLLIS THOMASES: Yes. There should be a sense of urgency, otherwise it won't have as much impact. That's why coupons have expiration dates.

KAREN LAKE: One of the services you provide is website announcements. How is that different from press releases?

HOLLIS THOMASES: There are services, like WebCardz, that can do two things. You can develop a customized postcard or mailing piece that gets sent out, announcing whatever you want it to. For a web announcement, they'll take a screen capture of any page of your website you'd like. They'll position it inside a browser frame and announce your URL, and you can send them out to your existing mailing list. If you're a brick and mortar company, you already have a mailing list. Or you can buy a mailing list. This is one thing that differs from press releases.

KAREN LAKE: Do you think that's effective? There's so much out there.

HOLLIS THOMASES: This is not an expensive thing to do. Some folks use web announcements and cards to tout giveaways and contests or to develop a sense of urgency. You could do a creative piece, something a little different, rather than a standard postcard. You could send out a file folder with the cutout for the tab, or something where you're still giving information and you've got the URL. Even if it gets filed away and not acted upon immediately, you got that touch. If you've touched the recipient and you get the standard 1 - 2 percent response rate for direct mail, at least you've got it. Everybody says, "Isn't there too much clutter?" I agree, but the fact is that it works.

KAREN LAKE: What do you mean by "soft marketing"? Can you give us some examples that have produced extraordinary results?

HOLLIS THOMASES: Soft marketing is essentially anything that is not paid for. Some of those things we talked about earlier--content placement, developing strategic partnerships on the basic level, site linking, search engine submittal and things like that. It doesn't require hard dollars, other than paying for the service to be performed. You're not paying extra for the placement.

One of the things we do for our clients includes site linking. One of our clients has a lot of affiliate products--products with strong affiliations to certain groups of people. We've developed a lot of links for them on the web. Some of the links have led to the second highest source of traffic to their site, apart from their No. 1 search engine. It speaks to the fact that we've done advertisement placement for them, we've done direct e-mail, we've done this and that. And a silly old link is the second highest source of traffic.

KAREN LAKE: Tell me about the co-op service you offer on your site for businesses that are looking for advertising.

HOLLIS THOMASES: This is in print. If we're approached by an advertiser--which is mostly the case since we've shifted our focus--they'll give us a little background. "This is what we are. We want to reach an audience either geographically located or industry-specific." They might even have publications in mind that fit who they're trying to reach. We take those into consideration and we look at their target market. We'll do research to find the kinds of publications to reach that target audience.

If they're a single advertiser coming to us for cost-shared advertisement placement, we'll offer them a bounty to help bring in other advertisers so we can take their ad to market faster. Or we'll go out and work on getting other advertisers so the ad can be placed, which is more difficult. If they know of colleagues or businesses who also want to reach that target audience and we offer them a bounty the more folks they bring in, the more likely it is that their ad will be free. They're usually more than willing to help us.

Website Design, Navigation, Content

KAREN LAKE: One of the services you provide is a website analysis for your clients: critiquing the construction, search engine optimization, navigation flow and communication of goals. Can you talk about that analysis? What are some typical mistakes or things that are done right on a site?

HOLLIS THOMASES: First of all, we don't use software tools or anything like that to do our analysis.

KAREN LAKE: You're the tool.

HOLLIS THOMASES: We're the tool. We have this wonderful thing inside our heads called a brain. The other thing that makes for a good analysis is common sense. We look at the anti-common sense things. They're the first red flags that come up. If we're scrolling down a page and we want to link to another part of the website and there's no navigational bar at the bottom, we know there's a problem. Once we go through to a page, we want to be able to navigate back without clicking the back button. We want to give people cross-navigational ability.

Another thing is to communicate who you are, what you're about and what you do well from the get-go. That message is important for several reasons. You're saying to the person who's coming to your website, "Hello. Yes, you're the right person to be here. We have what you're looking for, and you're going to enjoy your stay while you're here." A lot of that effort is going to help your search engine indexing and ranking. That speaks to content. Those are the things we look for.

KAREN LAKE: What's going to help your search engine rankings?

HOLLIS THOMASES: Some things you do with content and communicating your marketing message can help your search engine optimization, because you've got important key words built into your text. Also, when somebody is mousing over an image, if the pointer doesn't change into a little hand and they don't know it's a link, that's a problem. And ALT text that can be associated with a graphic helps with indexing.

KAREN LAKE: So if I have an image with my company name and an ALT tag on it, the search engine can still see that it's StrategyWeek.com?

HOLLIS THOMASES: Right. Actually we prefer to make the ALT text a bit more descriptive. Instead of just the company name, you could have "StrategyWeek.com--where business goes to learn about Internet strategy." Then you've got "business," "Internet" and "strategy" built into the ALT text.

KAREN LAKE: That's great. What else do you look for?

HOLLIS THOMASES: We also look for calls to action. Instead of just presenting yourself or your business on your website, you want to encourage the user to move forward, take action, buy now, click now, contact us now. We never take for granted that people know underlined words are hyperlinks and they'll just click on them. We want to insert the words "Click here to sign up now" or "Buy now!" or something like that to encourage people to take action.

KAREN LAKE: I enjoyed the article you wrote about how to promote your website from within, which is a different approach. Most of us are concerned with how to talk to the outside world about coming to our websites. Your article is about how we can get our company to realize that the Internet is a valuable part of our business. Many of our listeners have brick and mortar companies that have made the transition to online. Can you share some secrets from that article?

HOLLIS THOMASES: First and foremost, make sure that the receptionist--the person who answers the telephone and greets the visitors at the door--knows your URL. I can't tell you how many times I've called a company and said, "Can you give me your website address?" and they say, "Let me put you on hold for a minute." If your frontline person doesn't know about your website at the basic level, I'm sure many other people around the country aren't as educated about their own companies' websites as they could be.

If a company is investing a lot of money in a website so it's a sales facilitator--to either automate the process or make it easier for the end user to get to--why not educate the sales force and the marketing force about the website? If they can say to a prospect, "This portion is found on our website, and the website reviews it a heck of a lot better than I can over the telephone or in thirty faxed pages. Do you want to go there or would you prefer to talk to me?" Sometimes people will just say, "Give me the website address." Notice how I gave an option because you don't want to alienate your prospective client. You don't want to use the website as a crutch. You want to use it as an assistant, a tool.

The same thing goes for customer service. If the website is designed to handle a lot of customer service issues, this should work in alliance with the in-house customer service reps. Likewise, your voice mail should say, "While you're on hold, if you have questions about the following issues, they can be found on our website at address. Click on the blah, blah, blah link. I would much rather do this than stay on hold for thirty minutes. I don't think companies realize the power of their own employee force in promoting their websites and getting them used.

KAREN LAKE: You mentioned "recruit web links" in your article. What does that mean?

HOLLIS THOMASES: It's a whole empowerment thing. The site should be in constant evolution. You assign folks from each of the major departments to cover their own portions of the website--to critique the content, generate new ideas and act as liaisons between their departments and whoever is developing the site. You're empowering your people for their creative talent and leadership. That's always going to make them feel good, unless they feel put-upon instead.

That's why I said, "Try to recruit rather than assign." The best ideas are going to come from the people within your own company, who know your business, not from outside. Folks at a senior level often get tunnel vision. If you're giving people at the lower levels an opportunity to contribute, you're going to empower them and help yourself and the whole Internet process to move forward faster.

Closing Advice: Business Planning

KAREN LAKE: What tips would you give a friend who wanted to start their own Internet business?

HOLLIS THOMASES: The first thing I usually tell people is: Know what you're getting into. Don't rush to get online and develop unrealistic expectations. Write down your concept for the site and your plans for what you want to do with it. Then think about what you're up against. What kind of competitors do you have? How are you going to attract your target audience? Is there a market for what you do? A lot of businesses going online will have their best friend's cousin develop their website. I can't tell you how many companies with a lot of resources have defaulted to that.

KAREN LAKE: They do that first, but eventually they learn and come around.

HOLLIS THOMASES: Maybe they don't see it as a bad thing. But who knows if somebody comes to their website, gives it only one chance and never comes back?

The other thing I recommend is that if you want to convey a professional image for your business, do it right the first time. Invest the dollars, invest the time, plan well and don't rush.

KAREN LAKE: That's a great way to end the show. Thank you so much for joining us, Hollis.

HOLLIS THOMASES: Thank you, Karen.